Comments on Sound General Quarters!: Evangelicals Hitting the Fighting Holes?

Dear administrator:Some of our comments above may ...

2007-09-14T14:36:00.000-07:00

Dear administrator:

Some of our comments above may include links that are no longer valid or that do not have a nofollow value. They might very well lead you today to a third party. Therefore,
I ask you, if you would be so kind, to please delete or disregard those
comments.

Many thanks and best wishes,

Iza, Roberto Iza

Muy Señores Míos:

Algunos de nuestros comentarios incluyen vínculos rotos que bien pudieran llevar hoy a una tercera persona. Por tanto, le rogamos, por favor, que los deseche o desestime.

Gracias y recuerdos

Iza, Roberto Iza

great topic, keep up the great posts, MMA

2006-08-05T15:11:00.000-07:00

great topic, keep up the great posts, MMA

That comment was not meant for you,Eric. I meant t...

2005-11-16T12:28:00.000-08:00

That comment was not meant for you,
Eric. I meant to flame the anti-Navy
dork who dumps on the New Jersey.

Nice blog with interesting topics. I have a webs...

2005-11-02T17:12:00.000-08:00

Nice blog with interesting topics. I have a website that offers alot of controversial topics here. Just go to the links page and look for "Video Reviews"

Eric, thanks for responding and for the compliment...

2005-05-07T14:33:00.000-07:00

Eric, thanks for responding and for the compliment.

I too am skeptical, but not to the point of being dismissive. Any judgement I make of the AUSCS report is tentative, pending the results of the Air Force investigation.

I think you get to the heart of the matter here:

But my larger concern here is the mission of the AUSCS to use the establishment clause as a weapon to force compliance with its view of the United States. This group seems utterly determined to completely erase all traces of religion from government. My point is that the moral foundation built by religious institutions is an essential element of the moral development of military officers.

I agree with you that religion, morality, and spirituality are very important in the military.

In a place like the Air Force Academy, where men and women are trained to be leaders with life and death responsibilities, the military is allowed some latitude in religious matters that is not permitted elsewhere in the government.

Yet this is precisely why the rules are so important and why boundaries must be clearly defined and respected. The staff and cadets should be encouraged to discuss and share their religious beliefs and experiences, but religious harassment and bullying should be prohibited.

It should be made crystal clear that there are no official negative consequences for not being born-again or for not being Christian. And aggressive religious proselytizing outside of chapel should be discouraged and punished.

If AUSCS wants to go further than this, and make the academy a religiously sterile environment, then that is all the more reason for the academy to do a good job of policing itself. The academy must hold itself to a high standard of religious tolerance and respect. Otherwise it is merely inviting outside inquiries and monitoring that is not likely to be very friendly.

Matt,Thanks for the intelligent comment.However, I...

2005-05-06T23:04:00.000-07:00

Matt,

Thanks for the intelligent comment.

However, I am always skeptical when a group with an avowed agenda (e.g. AUSCS) "finds" data to support their cause. I, too, have read the report, and can see that it is riddled with statements that begin "we have been told", "it has been reported to us", "we have learned", etc. Statements like these do not constitute, in my mind, "authenticated complainants". In fact, only on page ten does the report actually describe a specific incident involving a specific individual.

But my larger concern here is the mission of the AUSCS to use the establishment clause as a weapon to force compliance with its view of the United States. This group seems utterly determined to completely erase all traces of religion from government. My point is that the moral foundation built by religious institutions is an essential element of the moral development of military officers.
Also, my own experience at the Naval Academy (which included a brief 1987 exchange period at Air Force) does not square with the dismal picture painted by AUSCS.

I can see how someone reading the report would be concerned, but I submit that a one-sided "report" from a strident advocacy group should be viewed skeptically if for no other reason than on general principle. I have also attempted to offer my personal experiences as a rebuttal to the gloomy and alarmist tone of the report. Until I see a specific individual stand up and describe their own experiences, I will remain skeptical of AUSCS.

CDR Salamander,You are posting at the same blogs I...

2005-05-06T08:50:00.000-07:00

CDR Salamander,

You are posting at the same blogs I am. I have no problem with that, because if you want to be heard, then you should be heard.

While I did copy some paragraphs here from a comment I left on your website, I typed it out this time instead of cutting-and-pasting it.

I tried re-writing the paragraphs, but the original wording expressed what I had to say a lot better.

How about answering my points instead of complaining how my comment takes away from diversity in this debate? Just how does recycling a comment reduce diversity anyway?

I can understand how running into me again could be frustrating to you, but I am promoting discussion, not wasting space.

Eric,ARRGHHHHH, there is Matthew again with a cut-...

2005-05-06T08:09:00.000-07:00

Eric,
ARRGHHHHH, there is Matthew again with a cut-n-paste he keeps putting everywhere. Gee wiz Matt. Diversity is important: in comments sections. I think this is the 4th or 5th time I have seen you post this WORD FOR WORD on different blogs.

You have two blogs of your own. If you want everyone to read the same thing over and over, put it there. Don't use up others space (like I keep doing responding to your blog-o-spam).

Eric,Well put, well stated. I especially like the...

2005-05-06T08:02:00.000-07:00

Eric,
Well put, well stated. I especially like the visual: a bunch of guys with "Fellowship Hall pot-luck" bellies, oversized study bibles, boxes with snakes and ill-fitting suits (I fit the bill with at least one of the above) running across the deck looking for their fighting hole.

Eric,You are right to be skeptical of the report, ...

2005-05-06T08:01:00.000-07:00

Eric,

You are right to be skeptical of the report, it raises a lot more questions than it answers.

But to dismiss the complaints as small in number or as being of "dubious origin" is probably incorrect.

Fifteen authenticated complainants is actually a significant number.

Fifteen complainants indicates that Americans United for Church and State (AUSCS) is not merely relying on isolated aggrieved parties, but has actually made an effort to look for and find real corroboration of any problems at the Academy.

You provided a link to Hugh Hewitt.

I read Mr. Hewitt's remarks about the AUSCS report before I read the actual report.

Based on what Mr. Hewitt had to say, I was expecting the report to be a sloppy compilation of rumors and overheated complaints. But what I read was actually quite disturbing in a different way.

It seems that AUSCS has documented longstanding and pervasive religious intolerance at the Air Force Academy, as well as violations of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment.

I am reluctant to conclude that Mr. Hewitt has been disingenuous or dishonest about this, if only because I want to give him the benefit of the doubt. But I certainly feel misled by Mr. Hewitt's characterizations of the report and his analysis of the allegations.

I urge anyone who is concerned about this report to read it, and see for himself what I am talking about.